Dortimi Kester Tawari, is the President, Ijaw Community Law Center. He’s also the Convener of the Forum of Ethnic Nationalities of Niger Delta. In this interview with MAYOWA SAMUEL, he shares his thoughts on the huge impact of the removal of fuel subsidy by President Bola Tinubu. Excerpts:
As a stakeholder in the Niger Delta, what are your views about the president’s removal of fuel subsidy and the process at which it was done?
It’s being said at different fora that subsidy is a fraud, whether it exists or not, that’s not my problem. I’ve been privileged to listen to my senior, Femi Falana, who said a lot of things which point to the fact that we’re subsidizing the rich against the poor.
So many things are being subsidized for the benefit of the rich, that’s one side to it. The other side to it is that, even if there’s subsidy, it has been the case, right from 2012, even up to 2015 when people campaigned that there was nothing like subsidy.
In the wake of the inauguration, the President said that there’s no more subsidy, it calls for interrogation, having been one of those persons that kicked against subsidy removal. lt gives mystery, as to whether there’s subsidy or there’s no subsidy. I’m one of those who believe that even if there’s a subsidy, the way and manner in which it was revoked or cancelled wasn’t proper. I oppose the process through which it was removed. If you follow that line of argument, we’ve come to realise that it must be removed because the Petroleum Industry Act has allowed for market forces to determine the prices of petroleum products.
How do you react to the impact the fuel subsidy removal has had on the populace so far?
Fuel is something that touches the life of every person. Are you talking about those that have acquired wealth, who can afford to buy petrol of about N35, 000 to N40, 000 to fill their tank? Once it’s petrol, it’s going to cascade down to other things in the economy, and the people worse impacted are the same people who of course have been classified as not having enough, and living below level which in summary, means a man living with less than $1 a day.
When you remove that, you’ve already put them in a tight corner. Economically, it’s going to affect their ability to pay rent, buy food, pay school fees, it will also affect their health. All these are part of the things that the government, in my perspective, must consider. Look at the faces of Nigerians, you get to the filling station, N3, 000 can only give you less than 5 liters. By the time you pay N5, 000, you’ll get about 9.3 litres of fuel.
How long will that drive you? The taxi and bus drivers will have to increase their fares because it’s directly impacting on them, so they’re going to transfer that cost to the commuters.
“The smuggling of petroleum products is done from the north. Are we not living witnesses to a customs officer who apprehended about 100 trucks heading towards Cameroon? That’s the border where they pass; it’s not from Cross River State”
How effective do you think these palliatives to cushion the effects of the fuel subsidy removal will be this time?
People have heard palliatives but we’ve never seen them. The rice and beans they’ve never seen, let alone making money available, has never reached the people. As far as the Ijaw nation is concerned, we’ve not seen any palliatives. They must look at the antecedents that palliatives have been a fraud, they never get to the people, and we never see the palliatives. Therefore, for you to ameliorate the suffering of the people, first of all deal with how the people can manage what you want to remove.
What do you suggest the Tinubu administration should do to ensure that the plan in this regard impacts positively and immensely on the people?
Although it’s too early to judge the government with their decision, maybe there’ll be some changes. What should be done is to handle transportation first. In a country like Nigeria, you find out that so many cars are on the roads, our public transport system is failing, it has failed, and it will continue to fail.
How will you in the 21st century, going to the 22nd century, not plan massive transportation like trains? Do you know that it’s a shame that we’ve not even had well maintained transportation in Abuja? In Lagos, you have just one, maybe Mile 2, going to CMS. How effective is that? How many can that even carry before you look at the safety impact it will have on the people?
For you to do palliatives you do it in a standard form, you keep going little by little and pick a particular date. Before that date, improve your transportation. One thing I advocate as a person is that you must build railways. That’s one system that conveys a lot of people. Do you know how much it will save for a common man in Lagos if the train moves from Agege to CMS? You’ve taken $800 million, where’s the money? Who distributed that money? Who has seen that money? We have seen where governments bought buses. What has happened to those buses? Are you going to provide a separate pump to be sold to those buses? You see the quagmire this has caused? Because it has ripple effects, it will cascade down to the common man who can’t afford three square meals a day.
Complaints have been intensifying that many filling stations are selling fuel higher than the approved rate. Are you a witness to this also?
Yes, many of them sell at increased prices; certain people have been manipulated at the filling stations. You think you’re buying at the approved rate; meanwhile you’re paying more than that. What regulatory system or framework has the government put in place to check and ensure that the pumps sell at the approved price? I would have thought that before now, since they’re aware that they want to remove subsidies, they should have known that they’re going to encourage and make sure by now that most of the cars in Nigeria will be working using electricity or gas. In that instance, you’ll have alternatives.
Our leaders think otherwise. In other places, you’ll do it in a gradual way. Look at how bad it is, you removed the subsidy, and you devalued the naira. You see the madness in the system? Now it’s exchanging for more than N700 to $1. We must build our economy by ourselves, according to our own indices, not what the oyinbo man says, because when things go up here, they don’t come down.
What’s your thought on the Dangote Refinery recently commissioned by former President Muhammadu Buhari?
You have commissioned a refinery, hoping that it’s the Eldorado, but it was all a farce. The refineries cannot produce, yet, you’re going back to grant that same refinery import licenses, and want to make it a monopoly. What are we really doing? Sometimes, I ask myself a question, does Nigeria really exist? People just get up and do what they like. When you grant a license to that person to import refined products, it’s supposed to be a refinery that you’ve started and you’re going to commission. Are we fools in this country?
You said that the Tinubu government should have provided palliatives first before removing the subsidy. But the government said that the immediate past administration of Buhari didn’t make provisions for subsidy payment for June. What do you make of that?
When people make statements, they must go round about it to understand, so that nobody is hoodwinked. In the first instance, they said the subsidy is provided for in the budget up to the close of June. You removed it on May 29.
So, that difference in price, who is taking it? Is it the government, is it the people? You have left us in the hands of the dealers for them to now extort the money they’ve already paid to you.
I believe there’s something wrong that they’re hiding from the people. You’ve told us openly that by the close of June, the subsidy will end, but we’re still in June. You cannot tell me there was no budgetary provision. I just believe that the government wants to hold it to raise money to fund its budget, because they’ve already taken that money from the marketers.
So, it’s open for them to go, so it’s left for Nigerians. Your destiny is in your own hands. At the end of the day, even if they want to reduce the cost of fuel, it will have no impact on the people. However, I must give them kudos because we do not see the black market anymore. It’s now left for them to put regulations in place to check the marketers.
You’re in the Niger Delta presently. Your region is where crude oil is being stolen and transported and sold outside the country. You must have heard about the protest in Cameroon over Nigeria’s removal of subsidy. Asari Dokubo on Thursday alleged that the Army, Navy, Police are involved in about 90% of the oil theft, and they all bully the NSCDC who are actually the ones with the responsibility for the catering of this crude oil. What’s the spate of oil smuggling looking like right now, after the subsidy removal?
Let me correct this. Refined products are not smuggled from the Niger Delta. It’s still to be proven whether crude oil theft is done, operated, administered by the Niger Delta people. Crude oil theft is a cartel, it’s not just anybody. Is it the 200 barrels that people are using to make a bonfire that you call oil theft? People have been known to steal crude oil.
Crude oil theft is an organised crime, a gang, it’s not something just done by the locals who are even helping the economy. In a place like Bayelsa, refined products from modular refineries are what people buy, and mix it with whatever, and put some treatment, and it runs your engine, both petrol and diesel.
The smuggling of petroleum products is done from the north. Are we not living witnesses to a customs officer who apprehended about 100 trucks heading towards Cameroon? That’s the border where they pass; it’s not from Cross River State. They carry the tankers. That protest in Cameroon you were referring to, it’s because we’ve increased the price, now they’re finding it difficult to pay. Ours was about N185 for example; they will take their trailers out to the North, sell it at a higher price and make their money.
The Customs officer, of late, was saying his life was under threat because of that. They take the refined products to the border through the northern states.
What may be missing from the southern states may be crude oil, and it’s not done by the locals, it’s done by people all over, from Abuja, and other places. They’re the ones that own badges and are escorted by the police, civil defense, the army and Navy. I’ve seen it, as I speak with you. In front of my community, we see, sometimes 60 badges, well-guarded and protected by the Navy, Army, Civil Defence, Police. Is it a civilian that will go and stop them? We don’t have the means. They escort them through the River Niger. How much crude do we even produce? Do we even know? Now they tell us that we produce 2.5 million barrels, that we’re the highest in Africa. We have records that show that so much is being stolen, it’s not just the locals that steal it, it’s an organized crime.
Are you satisfied with the performance of the Tantita group of Tompolo?
Thank God for Tantita, that’s Tompolo’s security outfit. So far, it’s been good. Anybody that’s given that opportunity will prove a point.
Tompolo is a man of the creeks, he knows the places. I just told you that 60 to 100 badges pass in front of my community. Who will stop them when they are guarded by security forces? Even for you to carry your phone to take their picture is risky. But you want to talk about someone who takes 20 barrels to refine and make money? Then, of course, we’ll be looking at many things like there are certain persons mining gold, processing the money.
But if it’s somebody from the oil producing state, you’ll say it’s enough, and then, you’ll legislate, what we call legal theft of their natural resources. I’m speaking as a Niger Delta person. But some other people in the North are mining gold, but you do not do anything about that.
We’ve been able to see Tompolo reveal locations where oil pipes were bypassed. But he also hasn’t been able to name security officials involved in all of these. Why the secrecy?
Was it not Wike that said even the security forces are part of it? What did we do? Wike, when he was governor, said it, he accused them to their very face, that they are the ones bunkering and stealing the crude oil. What happened? Did anything happen? Did heaven fall? Did they prosecute them?
Is it Tompolo that’s a civilian that will do that? He must have given the names of such people to the security agencies, let the security agencies do the necessary thing. He doesn’t have the power of the state to do that.
Don’t forget, he must also protect his back. The best he can do is to provide the names and give it to the government, let the government do what they need to do.
A former minister during Buhari’s tenure said they know the oil thieves, that they will name and shame them. Till the administration ended, they never did…
That’s to tell you the height of the members of that gang. It is a mafia setting. If you want to fight corruption, corruption will fight back. You must have the political will and strength, and you must be able to do that if you want to. But you just want to arrest men and women who are just trying to survive. That’s a wrong tactic. They know them, go after them in Abuja, they’re all over the place. We pray that President Bola Tinubu will be able to do something.
Now that he has removed the subsidy, what will be your counsel to him on the next line of action?
I don’t know what’s going on in his mind, but if I were in his position, what I’d do is to first of all, call everybody to a table and read the riot act. This economy must survive. Enough said, enough done, go and sin no more. No more cross border sale of petroleum products, no more theft of crude oil. We’re going to refine crude oil, and we’re going to sell crude oil. I want to tell you straight ahead that the refineries must work. Be on the field, you have to be in Port Harcourt, go there and see, give them a deadline. We’ve paid you money, $1.5 billion to fix this thing. It has to be fixed at a certain time. That’s the way to go about it. That’s what I’ll do.
Those that have been indicted, you must deal with them, we must show some examples, I expected that a long time ago. You must show authority and legitimacy in dealing with this. The government knows those that sabotaged the economy.
“He should be able to thank God and correct his mistakes. He’s a lawyer, he was a Governor, Senator, now Senate President. We expect him now to stay focused, to say now, I’ve made these mistakes in the past, and I’ll correct them now”
The former president appointed Lauretta Onochie as NDDC chair, to the disgust of many. However recently, the court ordered her removal from office which has generated different interpretations. What’s the actual state of things regarding this?
In the first instance, we had the chairman of the board, not executive chairman. This has been settled by the court that she’s not the chairman of the board; she’s just in charge of the day to day operations of that commission.
If you are designated as the executive chairman, then you have executive powers. It’s only when the board meets that she can decide, you don’t even need to have an office at the NDDC. It was just a conflict of interest and tussle for political power. You should have an MD that’s able to manage the dissolution of the board members, especially the chairman.
We have a Niger Delta master plan; we have other things meant for it to work, not just by building monkey bridges.
Anybody that wants to show himself, and is appointed as MD, should be very happy. NDDC should be able to build a coastal rail line, they should be able to build interstate highways, and take charge of them. Take the East West road and build it well, not just building churches, and town halls. They have the ability to build infrastructural landmines.
The former minister of Niger Delta, Godswill Akpabio, is now the Senate President. How will you reflect on his time as a minister?
Let me talk about the present, and leave the past. The present is that he has the opportunity to rewrite history as the Senate President. I believe that he’s wise enough to learn from his mistakes, if there were any, to now be able to do some things that are different from the past.
That’s what any reasonable person that God has given the opportunity to come back. He should be able to thank God and correct his mistakes. He’s a lawyer; he was a Governor, Senator, and now Senate President. We expect him now to stay focused, to say now, I’ve made these mistakes in the past, and I’ll correct them now. I’ll use my time as an oversight person of the assembly, to be able to make things happen. I’m talking about massive infrastructural development that will benefit more than his state, Akwa-Ibom, also the nine states of the Niger Delta politically, and then the five core states.
