Adams Oshiomhole is a former governor of Edo State and presently the All Progressives Congress Senator representing Edo North in the National Assembly. In this interview, he speaks on the recent hunger protest in Nigeria, the forthcoming governorship election in Edo State and other topical issues. Excerpts:
What’s your thought on the protests, regime change and security agencies saying under their watch they will not accept regime change or flying the Russian flag in Nigeria? Secondly, President Tinubu has spoken, do you think he has met Nigerians halfway or is it the usual rhetoric that hope will be renewed?
It must be clear to anybody that the only way to change a legitimate government is to go through elections as recommended in the constitution. There’s no room for regime change, there’s no room for military takeover of government in Nigeria. We have gone under military rule for several years. If it was a successful solution from 1996 till 1999, Nigeria would have been Eldorado.
I commend the president wholeheartedly from the bottom of my heart; the patience of President Bola Tinubu and the way in which he addressed those issues and I will explain why.
First, he acknowledged that there’s hardship in the country, but he didn’t dismiss it. It is important that a leader acknowledges the legitimacy of what people are saying. However, he said I have listened, I have heard you. That is a leader, a father who is talking to his children who are crying. My children, I have heard you, stop crying, I will do something. If you are faced with those numbers, saying we are hungry today, what do you do today?
In any case, the immediate thing the President has to do which some of us don’t even agree to, we now have to see governors, president commissioning of rice. I would like to see the commissioning of factories that will provide jobs, I would like to see a return to agriculture. The government of President Tinubu had to return to what is now called palliatives which have resulted in a huge scandal in many states.
“In my days, I don’t know how many times President Obasanjo went to buy rice to distribute to Nigerians. He said Nigerians should go and farm which is the legitimate thing to do. The President realising the pain and so on has had to resort to this short measure in the short run and in the long run it has to be that we produce what we eat and we eat what we produce. But this cannot be decreed by 10 days’ protesters; the President has spoken”
As a comrade who had exploited protests to say people shouldn’t protest, the question is, are people hungry, has the level of poverty increased since occupied Nigeria protests, is the situation not worse now? Do you think people are justified to come out and peacefully protest, not necessarily to remove the government?
I don’t always agree with your views but that is what makes democracy work, the right to defer. Your evaluation with profound respect is wrong. As the Yoruba, my part of the country, Edo will say and I think Abiola of blessed memory popularised this, that when you see some birds dancing on the highway, the drummers are not far from the bush. Without those drummers, those birds will not dance.
Now, it is not about if there’s hunger… I said so, if the president acknowledged it, who are you and I to deny it? That is not the issue. The issue is the people use what they see as what everybody can feel. Why do you feel that President Tinubu resorted to giving states N570 billion to do quick win palliatives?
In my days, I don’t know how many times President Obasanjo went to buy rice to distribute to Nigerians. He said Nigerians should go and farm which is the legitimate thing to do. The President realising the pain and so on has had to resort to this short measure in the short run and in the long run it has to be that we produce what we eat and we eat what we produce. But this cannot be decreed by 10 days protesters; the President has spoken.
Why I said it is not legitimate and I have no question about that is that at no time in my protests history did I demand that there should be regime change. If I see politicians trying to hijack it by their comments and so on, I am always quick to say look, we are not here to change the policy maker.
When you have an amorphous group, unknown faces…you referred to occupy Nigeria, I saw people like Pastor Tunde Bakare. You will recall when I was in the NLC, not only was my face known, we shared platforms with Professor Wole Soyinka now at 90. I’m happy he is ageing gracefully and God will continue to bless him and give him good health. I shared a platform with Femi Falana, Beko Ransome Kuti. And I remember on one occasion in front of Alausa, Gani Fawehinmi collapsed while addressing workers. These are Nigerians that are known, they have responsibility, he spoke for human rights, he spoke for hunger.
Nigerians need to understand that a man of my background refused to understand that peaceful protests cannot be used for regime change. I emphasise regime change because I understand the logic. I led from the front. These people you are mentioning, I don’t know them. If I don’t know them, I don’t know their faces.
You don’t know Take It Back Nigeria?
When you say take back Nigeria, I ask who has occupied Nigeria? In fact, this was the one that suggested that people wanted regime change. When they say we want to reclaim Nigeria, I say is Nigeria currently under foreign authority? Is Tinubu not a Nigerian? The South West he comes from, is it not part of Nigeria? Who is that group who wants to reclaim Nigeria for Nigerians? All the names you mentioned here, I listened attentively, if I don’t know some of these faces, at no time did they sit on a common platform to say this is who we are. Excuse me; the business of governance is not a tea party.
Do you know Sowore?
I know Sowore as a defeated presidential candidate and when you are defeated in an election, you wait for the man who won, you give him time. Sowore should know… he has interviewed me in Washington and I have met with him.I think he became one of the authoritative online publishers, SaharaReporters. What you get from SaharaReporters, I often wondered how he got his information. In my view, he was at his best. But once he dragged himself into politics and contested an election, he has become a politician.
So Sowore cannot be seen as speaking. People will see him as nursing the grievances, the pain of his defeat. We want the guy to speak for those who carry sticks in Kano, those who threw bombs in Maiduguri, for those who hijacked vehicles.
No leader will watch those smokes from different parts of the country and then come and wear a smile and say, my children I have listened to you. He told the children, I have listened to you, I have heard you. That is loaded, minimum words with maximum wisdom. You want him to decree out of existence? Even if it’s lawmaking, can he decree a law? He is not in a position to do so.
Now, I have listened and I heard you say he should have made the address before, let’s face it. Play back your own coverage of the villa, you will see at different fora, President Bola Tinubu say, I understand the unintended consequences of some of the bold decisions I have taken. Now, I had a huge challenge to make between matching the exchange rate to avoid a situation where these rent seekers are in business where a central bank governor, if he likes you, allocates $5 million to you and you become $5 million richer overnight, you don’t need to work again.
At least you have admitted you know one of the organisers, Sowore?
I said I don’t recognise what he is sitting in Washington and doing. No, those are absentee leaders, those are absentee desktop leaders. I led from the front, I collected teargas in the premises of Guardian Newspapers, I did it in the premises of the federal secretariat, I did it in Shomolu in Lagos. So, when we are talking, how can you ask a serious President, a president elected to now allow one of those he defeated to go to the comfort of Washington and be shouting from there and say I am directing you, I am hungry. If he is hungry, is he going to fix Nigeria from Washington?
Let’s be serious, protests are not Christmas parties. Sowore should at best come to Nigeria. When I was the NLC President, Obasanjo increased fuel prices to a level I considered injurious to our economy from N10 to N30, I came back from Geneva where I was a board member of the International Labour Organisation, because for me if am not home, what am I doing in Geneva? I came back home. Let us lead from the front and I told my colleagues let’s go to Abuja.
I don’t think it is about the identity of the protesters, this is a Gen Z issue, they are just saying they have a right to protest, they don’t need to be big names. We have seen what the Gen Z have been able to do in Bangladesh. For example, they don’t have leaders, they just say they are students.
Let’s go to Edo State, Monday Okpebholo, the APC candidate is being supported by Philip Shuiabu and Shuiabu joining the APC and bowing down before you, how comfortable is that for you? Secondly, there’s the allegation that you seem to have subtle sympathy for Asue Ighodalo, the candidate of the PDP. What’s your comment on Edo State politics?
Asue Ighodalo is not electable. Right now, he fraudulently according to the Federal High Court, manipulated and disobeyed the constitution of the PDP, he violated the electoral law that the primary that produced him was done in clear bridge of the law of the constitution. So as we speak, he is not a candidate.
Number two, Asue Ighodalo cannot even speak the language of the people where my late wife came from. Asue Ighodalo is not electable. Nigeria doesn’t want double breasted consultants, transaction experts, with one hand in the pocket. He has never been identified. He said he was chairman of Ala Ighodalo, what were the achievements of Ala Ighodalo other than spending billions of naira in consultancy.
He is not electable, he doesn’t speak the language of the people, he doesn’t know the people. Even the day he went to announce himself, he carried an interpreter to speak to his own villagers. When he finished he went to Benin, he didn’t sleep in his village because local people in his view are all witches and wizards. Typical of some segments of the elite; a man like that can’t govern.
My dear friend, you know I can never sit on the fence, Asue is not electable, how can I secretly support him? Support him to do what? He is the worse version. All these people that say that they are technocrats let them remain in consultancy whether they are lawful or unlawful. He managed a bank that is in business with Edo State, we will have to investigate how much he made in consultancy between Edo State Government and his own private company, including where he chaired some banks.
“Asue Ighodalo is not electable. Right now, he fraudulently according to the Federal High Court, manipulated and disobeyed the constitution of the PDP, he violated the electoral law that the primary that produced him was done in clear bridge of the law of the constitution. So as we speak, he is not a candidate”
Please fact check yourself where you talked about the court judgement, the Appeal Court in Abuja actually upheld his judgement?
You are not current. There are several cases one has to do with the one filed by Philip Shuiabu, that one, the court said Philip Shuiabu has no jurisdiction because he did not participate in the formal convention. Without going into the merit, even yesterday the issue of whether he forged his registration card with INEC, and INEC has said the card in question was not issued by them.
So what ruling were you referring to then because we need to be sure it’s facts we are speaking?
I’m not wasting time on this thing. If he thinks he doesn’t have a case he shouldn’t have filed an appeal, he filed an appeal and the Court of Appeal dismissed it yesterday or day before yesterday. I have certified a true copy signed by the judge. They are now heading to the Supreme Court, I am praying for him because we don’t want a short cut, we want to defeat him so that he understands that the Edo people are wiser now. Last time they used ethnicity and all sorts of things, this time…
Now, let me go to the issue of Shuaibu. You said you saw Shuaibu kneeling down before me in public, I didn’t ask him to kneel down. He said he is a prodigal son and that is biblical, who am I to stop him? Now a father must have a large heart. We have welcomed him back to the APC family, it is not about whether he disrespected me, he did things that I wouldn’t have approved of and I spoke so in another channel and I am not going to repeat it today.
I am not going to now get myself detained by the fact that one of my children misbehaved, I have forgiven him and I hope he has also learnt his lesson that you don’t throw everything away. If I don’t forgive him, how can I ask God to forgive me? I am a Catholic and one of the prayers I say every day including this morning is that father, forgive me my trespasses as I forgive those who trespass against me. So, in the Catholic doctrine, you are not entitled to seek forgiveness if you, yourself, are not capable of forgiving those who wrong you.
I have forgiven him and someone asked me, can I trust his future loyalty and I said that is a matter of time but for now, forgiveness is the name of the game and I have forgiven him. And I hope he will never do so whether in our party or any other party.
