Lawyer and community leader, Chief Anslem Ojezua, is a chieftain of the Peoples Democratic Party in Edo State. He was the State Chairman of the All Progressives Congress until he defected to the PDP with Governor Godwin Obaseki. In this interview with MAYOWA SAMUEL, the renowned grassroots mobiliser said the extension of the deadline for party primaries by the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) was unethical and unprofessional. He also argued that Nigeria’s constitution makes it impossible to secure the country and that Nigeria is structured in a way that is skewed against the South. Excerpts:
INEC extended the window for political parties to conduct their primaries. This was after the PDP had done theirs. Was this fair? Was INEC dancing to the tune of the government in power?
I will not be surprised if that is the case. What INEC did, in civilised climes, is unethical. You provided a framework, all the parties did as if it was acceptable to them, they had started their processes, and you now change the rules in the middle of the game. In my opinion, that’s unethical, very unprofessional, and it does not give the impression that it is independent nor does it give the impression that it is not an interested party. When you do something that clearly favours a participant, I mean, you are no longer an arbiter. To that extent, I think INEC shot itself in the foot. Other than that, I think what will be, will be.
How would you describe the outcome of the recently concluded presidential primary of the PDP with the emergence of former vice president, Alhaji Atiku Abubakar as the party’s presidential candidate?
I would say that I received it with mixed feelings because initially, I had anticipated even before the process started that we could end up with a southern presidential candidate in view of the quest of the south to produce a president after eight years of one coming out from the North. Unfortunately, the attitude from the South itself did not indicate any willingness to work towards that objective.
Therefore, I was not surprised in the end that it fell back to the North. In terms of the organisation of the convention, I would say that the convention was so very well organised. The kind of hiccups that are usually associated with this kind of big event was so minimised that the event was quite pleasant. Perhaps the reduction in the numbers that they had to deal with, in terms of the number of delegates may have made it easier for the organisers.
One of the aspirants, Governor Nyesom Wike said he would have scattered the election because one of the provisions of the party’s constitution was breached when Sokoto governor, Aminu Tambuwal, after he stepped down from the race, publicly asked his delegates to vote for Atiku Abubakar, which he sees as campaigning on an election day. Do you see anything wrong with what Gov. Wike was accusing Gov. Tambuwal of?
As of that date, I think everybody would have taken their positions. Generally speaking, it is said that you do not campaign on an election day but you have to decide what interpretation you give it because it is not unusual for a person to say I’m opting out of this race and I want you my supporters to vote for a particular person.
People are saying, if he had to do that, he shouldn’t have said that publicly. He should have gone to his delegates and told them personally.
No, it doesn’t make a difference, it’s not unusual. I have been in that kind of situation in several places where people come out on the day of the event to say I am stepping down for somebody. It doesn’t amount to a campaign. That’s why I said it depends on how you interpret it. He is now pitching his tent with somebody else. So he expects that all those who are with him should go that way. It’s unfortunate that like I said, it didn’t come to the South but I also told you, our attitude in the South, also needs more to be desired.
Wike has presented himself more in a combative mode than somebody who is actually applying for a job to serve. He would rather be seen as a master and I don’t think the mood in our kind of country requires that kind of attitude. So, if he had gone to court, or if he had made trouble, it will not have been surprising to a lot of people. I don’t know how much that would have helped the party because on that day, a decision had to be made, one way or the other.
“What INEC did, in civilised climes, it’s unethical. You provided a framework, all the parties did as if it was acceptable to them, and they had started their processes, you now change the rules in the middle of the game, in my opinion, that’s unethical, very unprofessional, and it does not give the impression that they are independent”
The issue of zoning is not in the Constitution; however, we cannot ignore the role it plays in a country like ours. However, your party didn’t zone it but left it open. Was that fair, going by the present condition of the country?
Generally speaking, politics essentially is about persuasion and negotiation. If you go by way of legality or constitutionality, the Nigerian constitution does not allow you to define where the president must come from because everybody is free to aspire, provided you are a Nigerian citizen, regardless of where you come from. The reality is that, in the course of your politicking, you can decide to negotiate or try to persuade your countrymen to see it your way, in order that other issues are addressed. For instance, in anticipation of 1999, there was this general mood in the country that since the June 12 imbroglio, the South-West appeared to have been unduly maltreated by reason of the fact that Chief M.K.O. Abiola won an election but he was deprived, and so, looking at the mood of the country, it was generally expected that they should be assuaged. Then they took steps to do so. But even in doing so, if you look at it, you will find out that the decision to, as it were, zone that position to the west at the time, was voluntarily taken mainly by people from the North, believing that if somebody from the South West comes out, then the tension in the country will reduce. And in doing that, they didn’t even ask the Westerners who will be their choice. They too decided that this is the man that they will be comfortable with. In spite of the fact that General Obasanjo was then incarcerated, they went and brought him out, paid off his debts, because the constitution does not allow a bankrupt to become president, and virtually put him in office by their votes. If you recall, President Obasanjo didn’t win in his ward, didn’t win in his local government, didn’t win in his state, neither did he win in his region, yet won the presidency. That is the best graphic example you can give, that if you want, as a Southerner to become president, you must reach out to the other regions for support, or possible sponsorship because if they pick you and say look, this is the man we are going to support, they will be the one to rally their people to vote according to that choice. It is a privilege, and if you seek privilege, you must come with humility. As you seek equity, you must be seen to really need it, and you must come with the right attitude. If you don’t come with the right attitude, and they don’t give it to you, the next question is, what does the rule say? The rule says the majority will carry the day, and Nigeria has been so structured against the South. There are more local governments in the North, there are more constituencies in the North and some people want us to believe that the population of the North is much more than that of the South. So, even if you look at the configuration in that arena, already the North has the majority because there are more local governments. If one delegate comes from one local government, already it is skewed. But if for instance, somebody who wants to be president of Nigeria, had succeeded in taking PDP back to the days previously, that is to say the one I referred to, 1999. If you look at 1999, the victory of the PDP was predicted on the alliance between the North Central, South-South and South East zone. Both the North East and the North West voted against PDP, South West, the same. So, North West and North East voted APP, South West voted AD. It was North Central, South East and South-South that produced the president. It could have been easy for the South to say look, if we want to do equity, the only part of the South that has not produced the president is the South East. So, let us prevail on our children and say look, let all of us put our resources together, look for somebody from the South East, that fits the bill but above all, that will be acceptable to the North.
There is no part of Nigeria where most politicians don’t have friends. They will reach out to their friends across the border to say please, come and help us make this man. We have resolved that this is our person. It would have been easier if we had succeeded in getting people from parts of the North to say yes, we will help you because this man is a good man, we can relate with him, we have a future with him, they can even negotiate as I told you, it’s about negotiation and persuasion. They say okay, what’s in it for my region? By the time you do all of that, you will be able to reach some sort of consensus. All these issues about dollars, it’s not all about money. As you can clearly see, if it was about money, perhaps Wike would have carried the day. He spent a lot of money but he didn’t quite do it. So, that’s a lesson that we need to learn, not everything is for sale. Even though money is important, it would not the most important. We should have done a better job, coming from the South.
Would you have preferred the inclusion of statutory delegates in the electoral act, or you prefer it as it presently is?
The inclusion of the statutory delegates, in my opinion, gives more credibility to the process because those ones are stakeholders, for instance, officers of the party. You can imagine a party picking its presidential candidate and the national chairman cannot vote. How does that sound to you? So, to that extent, I believe it was a mistake, rather than a deliberate thing. I don’t think the National Assembly meant it. It was a mistake from the draftsmen, that’s my belief. And unfortunately, the members of the National Assembly did not detect it until the law had taken effect and it had turned out to be a costly mistake. I believe that after this, they will correct it. I believe so.
Different names have been flying around as potential running mates for Atiku. Who would you prefer to be the Atiku’s running mate?
I’ve not given it a thought. I think the presidential candidate knows what he wants. I believe he’s consulting with those he should consult with and I believe that whosoever that is chosen will be somebody that will generally be acceptable to everybody. The choice of the presidential candidate is a crucial one, and I honestly believe that the man who has been chosen has sufficient experience in this matter. So, I would rather just wait and see how it plays out.
“Let us look at our Constitution, it is not working, it is not workable, and that is the reason why our security has been terribly compromised. It is not practicable for them to secure this country with this structure, as it is currently designed. It won’t work. The sooner they get to find out, the better”
If Atiku eventually picks Wike as his running mate, will that be okay with you?
It’s his choice to make. Wike is not a bad man as such. His only problem is his attitude and there is a world of difference between a president and a vice president. A vice president will do as he’s told. So, if Wike becomes vice president, his attitude will change, to go with the job. I don’t mind that at all.
The insecurity across the country is not getting any better with kidnappings for ransom, now becoming a daily occurrence. With all this, do you see elections holding next year?
I am terribly concerned about the insecurity. Whether the elections go on or not, what is going on in this country has become more than an embarrassment, it is now a scandal. And the truth about it is that we do not want to accept the fact that we lack the capacity to deal with the insecurity of the country from one central point. It’s not going to work, Nigeria is too big and the population has grown so large. Today, we are over 200 million people. There was a time when we were just 80 million or even less. At that point, maybe you could do that. But now, people have become so many. Look at out-of-school children today in excess of 10 million, that’s more than the population of some countries in Africa. That should tell you that everything has to be localised, security most of all. Countries like the USA where you have security brought down to the neighbourhood level, I mean armed security with proper training and investment, that’s what we need. If our country is not safe, we can’t do anything. You are talking about the election, what about those who want to go from Benin to my hometown? I just have to be prayerful from point one to point two. People use to travel to their various states to vote at any time. Now, people are not safe. Those who are coming home from abroad, when they get to Lagos, they say they can’t come, their relations have to come and meet them. We have seen some of them who have come, developed the courage to go home and they get slaughtered. It’s so embarrassing, and the government does not seem to have a clue. They claimed they have all kinds of technological tools to do this, to track, they initiated NIN, but on the screen and every day, months, years, children have been in the enclaves of terrorists, but inspire of the technological savvy, we cannot track them? The people use their telephone to negotiate and even receive money in voluminous bags. How can they tell me that people will just take 200 children across three states? It’s unbelievable. That is why it is possible for people to believe that there are state actors who are complicit in this, and some of the victims have actually come out to say so. It should be taken seriously. Let us localise our security apparatus so that people can put their destinies into their own hands. Between the hunters, farmers and the vigilantes, they can do a better job, than when you bring police and soldiers from other places. Let us localise this thing for God’s sake, let’s forget about who the power resides with. That is why the constitution has made Nigeria ungovernable. We have to look at it. The president is so powerful but he does not even know one-quater of his country. If he likes, he should spend twelve years in office, he can’t travel the length and breadth of Nigeria. If he comes to Benin, he will believe he has come to Edo State but Benin is just a part of Edo State. Please, let us look at our Constitution, it is not working, it is not workable, and that is the reason why our security has been terribly compromised. It is not practicable for them to secure this country with this structure, as it is currently designed. It won’t work. The sooner they get to find out, the better. You can imagine, a policeman will do his job at the local level, if the commissioner does not tell him to back off, a message from Abuja will tell him to back off, and that’s the end of the story, regardless of the enormity or gravity of the crime committed. We can’t continue like this, something has to give, otherwise, we are all going under. Look at the last train attack; you saw the quality of people that were affected. It is going to get worse. When they start going to big men’s houses to pick them up, I think they will wake up. It’s disgraceful, it’s not just an embarrassment, it’s worse than that. I’m even still surprised that they are still talking. It’s only in Nigeria that such a thing can happen. In other places, they would have demanded the resignation of certain key people, starting from the head, right down to the tail.
Like on Wednesday in Tunisia where their president sacked fifteen judges for trying to protect terrorists in their country…
You can just imagine. Our situation is even worse than theirs. We just have to understand our problem. Like I keep telling people, we have reached a stage where we just have to find a way to protect ourselves, otherwise, there will be nobody to protect, that is the truth. If you look at our constitution, the fundamental provision states that the primary purpose of government is the security and welfare of its citizens. It’s unequivocal, very clear, and it is express. Where does government fail to provide this, what happens? Do the citizens not reserve the right to protect themselves and their families? Where the government has failed completely, it’s a total failure. I don’t think anybody needs to be told. Like they say in our parlance, e don pass be careful.
