In this interview, the Minister of Federal Capital, Nyesom Wike, speaks about why he worked against the People’s Democratic Party in the 2023 presidential election, the recent violence in Rivers State, his relationship with Governor Simi Fubara, Tony Okocha and Austin Okpara. Excerpts:
What happened in your state was less than honourable – the destruction of those local government offices. What’s in your assessment as a leader in the state?
Well, there’s no decent person, no person who believes in the peace and stability of any nation that would say that he wants to support violence. No such person would say that he wants to support destruction or that he doesn’t want people to live in harmony. But what is important is that when there’s violence, when there’s instability, it’s for you to ask questions, what has led to that violence? What has led to instability? What led to destruction, if at all? It’s very key.
I have said I was a governor; I have always obeyed the rule of law.
You heard the governor say that our state is turning to a state of anarchy where people don’t obey the rule of law. What is ‘obeying the rule of law? You must respect, you must obey the judgment of Courts.
You must not take the laws into your hands. It doesn’t matter how you see that judgement, the moment you don’t obey court judgement, you’re inviting anarchy, and you’re inviting violence.
Was that the situation before now?
A governor came out on national television, not local television to tell the world, ‘I will not obey court judgement. In fact to crown it all, he said he was not aware the court said the election shouldn’t be held. He went as far as saying I don’t need police before I conduct an election.
I don’t need security agencies before conducting elections. You need the protection of life and property, when someone says, ‘I don’t need police’. What are you saying? I’m inviting violence; hoodlums will take the opportunity since the police won’t be involved.
Are you not misinterpreting what the governor said?
No, I’m not misinterpreting anything, you heard him say ‘I do not need police before I conduct election’.
“He is my friend doesn’t mean I brought him to APC, but he fought me during my election but he is my friend”
But they withdrew the police from the state …
Fine, what is the function of the Police? What is the function of State Security? It’s to provide security so that hoodlums cannot take advantage of the exercise. And you are saying you can go, I don’t care about it. In that case, who is the perpetrator of that violence?
Are you blaming the governor for the violence in the state?
It’s not about blaming the governor; he is the architect of the violence.
But you have been blamed by some people. There is a group chanting “No Wike, No Rivers” causing mayhem in the State?
Did you see them causing mayhem?
They were caught on tape, you will see some of them smashing and destroying things in the television
(Cuts in) so those who were smashing are my supporters? Those who were chanting “No Wike, no Rivers” How would that be my business?
You saw me, I’m in Abuja, I didn’t go anywhere. Take for example, if I know my supporters are doing that, I’ll condemn it.
Have you condemned what happened in Rivers, because those who are chanting…
(Cuts in) Let’s not change the narrative. Here is a governor who has said he wouldn’t obey the rule of law and order. What are we saying, obey court order, please let’s not change the narratives, obey court judgement. All of you presented yourselves to the court; all of you presented your legal representation, your lawyers, Senior Advocates of Nigeria. And the matter was argued and the court came up with judgement, by my own view and opinion, I think this is what is supposed to be done, therefore I hereby say, do this and do that, fine that is court judgement. We want order.
You heard the president saying the judiciary has settled all political disputes, those who went to court, those who want to settle political disputes and you came out as a governor to say no, ‘This is a fraudulent judgement’, accusing the judiciary of being fraudulent, ‘I will not obey this judgement. I will go ahead and do what I want to do’.
In that case, who is inviting violence? Who is inviting anarchy? You heard him say, our state has turned to be where people do not want to obey law and order. What is obeying law and order, obeying what the Court has said? This country is a country where you see people trying to use opportunities because Wike is there. I have a grouse against Wike, I want to settle that grouse, this is the only way I can do it. You forget that it’s not about Wike, it’s about society. It’s about the state, it’s about the nation. If today a court gives a judgement, not an order, a judgment and said look, this is what should be done, you went on Appeal, which means you are aware that there was a judgement against this, you went on Appeal, you don’t want to be patient to follow the due process, let Appeal come out and say this and that, you came out to national television to say I will not obey court judgement. It’s a fraudulent judgement.
I have never seen that in my life; where anybody can come out because a judgement is against you or because it’s not in your favour, you attacked an institution and said it’s fraudulent. Look at what has just happened. INEC said, we will comply with the court judgement, what did they do, that the REC, the Residential Electoral Commissioner, who acted on behalf of the office, should be removed!
Why? Because he said we are going to comply with the court judgement. Police said look, we are party to this suit, the court has stopped us and therefore we are going to comply with the court judgement.
He said no, get out, I don’t care. DSS was stopped, I said look, we are not in a lawless society. And I feel so bad, Nigeria today I hear a lot of people who say nobody should derail democracy. Let’s ask ourselves, who is derailing democracy? Who intends to derail democracy? Is it the man who said court judgement should not be respected? Is he the one promoting democracy? All of us are saying, I have heard, former vice president, Atiku Abubakar, I have heard from former president Jonathan saying about derailment of democracy, Atiku said, ‘I praise Fubara for standing up tall”; oh he is standing up tall to say court judgement should not be respected? That is Nigeria we claim to love.
How do you see this judgement as a legal practitioner that a court is stopping a state from performing a constitutional duty, how do you explain this?
The court said, ‘do not support an illegal act’. Because it’s illegal. What is the problem? If you have seen the judgement, what did the court say? The court said: INEC, you are the custodian of the voters’ register. Its INEC register that you must use in conducting any election, be it local or general election. And in the conduct of the election, I have heard people say; we should go and do an election.
The Supreme Court didn’t say, go and do an election tomorrow. What the Supreme Court said was you cannot continue to set up a caretaker committee when you know that the tenure of those who are there will be expiring so, so time. Therefore, you want to start up a process to conduct an election, it’s not as if you were not aware that the tenure will expire, so time for him to be able to start a process according to the law, to conduct that election.
He refused because this is a country where anybody can do anything and go free and you fall back to social media to carry blackmail and propaganda without telling the people this is what happened. You said stopping institutions from performing their lawful duties, we are not stopping anything, what they said you cannot be part of an illegal act; you must comply with the provisions of the court. This thing you want to do is illegal.
So can someone wake up one morning and stop a presidential election? Is that what….
(Cuts in) No, no it’s not correct. That is why I said let me finish. People come to say, the Supreme Court said do elections, you cannot set caretakers, you must conduct elections. But conducting elections does not mean you won’t follow due process. What is the due process?
There must be a time, you must give notice, you must publish it, and this is the time we must do an election.
They later went to court. Listen, he didn’t follow due process by law. He didn’t follow it. And he must follow it, and if you don’t follow it, INEC, you should not release this because this is a contravention, a violation of the law. Have they done badly? And police, your duty is to act in accordance with the law. If they say they want to go on with this, you cannot participate, it’s illegal. And the court made it clear, that look, INEC you cannot. Let them go and comply with what the law says. If they comply, go ahead. The court didn’t say you cannot do anything.
“I have no apology to render to anybody because in our party, the PDP party, this is what we said this is what we are going to do, and getting to this point, you refused, I said okay, if you refuse, I will also not agree to this and I have no regrets at all”
What do you make of the jurisdiction of the federal high court in a local government election?
No, no, that is the problem people have. What is the issue? The issue is about INEC. Don’t release the voters’ register. Police, don’t be part of it. DSS don’t be part of it. These are federal agencies, you cannot go to the state high court, you have to go to the Federal High Court, and that is why they went to the Federal High Court. No state High court can preside over any matter that INEC is involved in. So, they went to the Federal High Court, where they have jurisdiction; INEC, the police are there, they are all federal agencies, so they went to the Federal High Court and they are right.
But there are conflicting court orders of coordinate jurisdiction in Rivers State.
No, it’s not correct. Let me tell you, and that is why people should get the facts clear. This matter was filed in July, the Attorney General was sued on behalf of Rivers State government, INEC was sued, Inspector General was sued and all was sued.
In July, the plaintiff lead lawyer is one of the renowned lawyers we have in this country, J.B Daudu, SAN, the other party had their own lawyers, Femi Falana, name them, Senior Advocates, they are all involved. They sued Rivers Attorney General who is supposed to represent Rivers State, they sued Rivers State Independent Electoral Commission who is supposed to receive the Voter register from INEC; without the voters’ register you cannot conduct local government elections. This matter was filed in July, arguments were heard, and the court reserved judgement. Now they went and sued themselves (the APP they declared that won) themselves through the governor and their cronies, sued the RSIEC, who was a party in the federal High Court. Now they refuse to defend it, it’s a game.
The Attorney General in the suit in that High Court, RSIEC is in that suit of the Federal High Court, then APP went to the state High Court to sue the same government (Rivers State government) that is already in Federal High Court, to sue RSIEC that is already in the Federal High Court and then getting an order on the 4th and 5th of September and kept it.
Before they have given them notice that judgement would be tomorrow or next, they now came, oh we have an order from the state High court. Now, let me tell you, you said you gave INEC directive, INEC is not a party to the suit. How can you give INEC which is not a party to the suit? You gave IGP order, you gave DSS order, they are not in the suit, are they parties to the suit?
Are you saying that the state High court should not entertain that matter in the first place?
First of all, it’s not possible. How can you give orders to people who are not parties to the suit? It is impossible. In any case, which is legal? Federal judgement, which is the right judgement, not interlocutory injunction, not ex parte injunction, a judgement of a court, when considered, no matter how wrong it is, and that is why we have appellate court, and that is why they have appealed. Why not be patient and see what the appellate court would do, that the judge was wrong. And the appellate court said look, the judge you are wrong. Don’t take laws into our hands.
But there was a deadline to conduct the local government elections…
I take exception to the fact first of all, I don’t know the side of the Federal Government, how the Federal Government worked out with them, I’m not a party to it; so I don’t know about that. I’m not working in the office of the Attorney General of the Federation. I didn’t go to court.
All Progressives Congress went to court in July. The problem we have is that, in most cases when you don’t have good lawyers doing your work, you blame the judges. If you have read the judgement, which I believe you should have, nine preliminary objections from July, the judge looked at them, considered them and gave his opinion and went to the substantive matter. Is it my business? Even if I know the game as a political strategist -yes, assuming.
You mean you don’t know the whole gimmick of all these? Because you said you are behind the APC, the PDP both in and out, you have all of them in your hands …
(Cuts in with) You must be a super power to be in… you must be a super man
Is Tony Okocha not your man?
How is he my man? They voted against me in the governorship election, so how is he my man?
Some people said you were responsible for bringing Tony Okocha
How could I have brought Tony who is in APC?
You are denouncing your friend then?
He is my friend doesn’t mean I brought him to APC, but he fought me during my election but he is my friend.
But you fought the APC but now you are working with them?
No, I didn’t fight against them; I said for the presidential election, I’m going to support equity, fairness and justice. And in the other one, I’m going to support my party. And that is why we won governorship, National Assembly elections.
For the presidency, I don’t have apologies because I don’t believe in injustice, I don’t believe where you don’t allow other people to participate. Today, people say, oh discipline Wike, he did anti- party. I didn’t do anti-parties, but we must stand up for equity, fairness and justice. Today what happened?
The governor is working with APP, the chairman of the PDP Governors Forum, Bala Mohammed was the one who attended the swearing in of the APP chairmen. What is all about the hullabaloo, what is all about the cry? Wike, Wike, Wike, Wike! I said I’m not going to support injustice and I have no apology to render to anybody because in our party, the PDP party, this is what we said this is what we are going to do, and getting to this point, you refused, I said okay, if you refuse, I will also not agree to this and I have no regrets at all.
That is the grievance the likes of Austin Okpara have against you, some even say they fell out with you because you were not standing with the party.
That is what I call political illiterates when they make such statements. They are political illiterates. Let me tell you, I don’t blame Austin Okpara. How do you beat a child and say he shouldn’t cry?
2006/2007, he wants to run as governor of Rivers State. We belong to the same group with Amaechi at that time, we supported him to be Deputy Speaker at the National Assembly, in order to support and protect Amaechi’s ambition. He developed an ambition to be governor.
We said no, we will not allow that, this was not what we agreed.
Why should you betray us when we supported you to be Deputy Speaker? You are to go to Abuja to protect our interest so that we can produce a governor with Amaechi. On getting there, people began to speak to him how he is qualified to be a governor. And then he started governorship and all that, we said okay. By the grace of God, he did not become a governor. In 2014 /15, I was the one instrumental- we fought with Amaechi on the structure of PDP. We stood for the party, Amaechi left for APC. Austin Okpara forgot who was this and that.
