There is no solution yet to protracted leadership tussle in the Association of Senior Civil Servants of Nigeria as the expelled former president, Bola-Audu Innocent, claims that he is the authentic president of the body. In this interview with MAYOWA SAMUEL, the national president of the Union, Tommy Etim Okon, sets the records straight, as he also shared his thoughts on other national issues. Excerpts:
Why has the crisis in the Association of Senior Civil Servants of Nigeria taken this long without any sign of resolution in sight yet?
There’s no crisis, what’s going on is only being done out of ignorance on the part of the former president, Bola-Audu Innocent. When he had the issue with the National Agency for the Prohibition of Trafficking in Persons, the Central Working Committee met and agreed that I should act as the national president while he stepped aside until his name was cleared, to protect the image of the association. However, instead of abiding by that decision or following internal dispute resolution mechanisms, he took the association to court. From the High Court, he couldn’t get a judgment, he didn’t stop there, he suppressed facts, and then bridged access to the National Secretariat in Lagos. When we discovered that he had gone to court, and loaned our account, we now applied to be joined. When we joined, the truth was made in the court, and the judge reversed his interim order, and returned us to the office, then we had access to our offices. He didn’t stop there, because he was working in the Accountant General’s office, he falsified records, opened our accounts, and diverted our Union dues. We discovered, and took him to task again. The matter is being investigated and the police are on it, but we’ve recovered our account. He had diverted the money but we recovered the account in the Integrated Payroll and Personnel information system. He then challenged his expulsion, the case is in the National Industrial Court. The FCT High Court has ruled on his no case submission application, and acquitted him, but does that then justify him to say that he’s the president of the association? No.
The former chairman was suspended because of the trafficking allegation, but since the court has now cleared him of the trafficking allegation, why isn’t that enough to clear the way for him to return to his former position?
No, his suspension was not as a result of the court case. His suspension was based on the infraction of the constitution and his anti-union activities. When the CWC told him to step aside, it was not a suspension, it was just for him to remain calm and leave the office of the presidency while someone is acting. Now, the association suspended him because of his anti-union activities. He came to forcefully take over the secretariat without regard to the decision of the National Executive Council, which is the highest decision making organ of the union, that’s how he was suspended. When he became more recalcitrant, the NEC met and expelled him. He’s now the one who challenged his expulsion in the court, and the matter is still there. NIC ruled that the status quo be maintained, that is we are operating and he is floating.
“No one man is bigger than the association. If the same association that gave you the mandate said this is the decision, I think it is incumbent on a responsible person to obey the decision of the association because like I said, every follower knows their leader”
Isn’t there ambiguity regarding what the court meant by maintaining the status quo? Does maintaining status quo as ordered by the court mean your own led ASCSN should remain or he should return to the fold pending the final determination of the suit?
The status quo to remain meant that those who were leading the association should remain which as at that time, I was still the one leading the association, he wasn’t the one leading.
So, you’re saying the expelled president was wrong to interpret the status quo order to mean that he should return as president?
That’s what he’s erroneously interpreting it to be. In fact, in one of the court sessions, the judge asked his lawyer if he had guided his client on the internal dispute resolution mechanism. He was just beating about the bush, he couldn’t know. You get the logic? Now, all the organs are intact with me, the units, the CWC, and the NEC, even the zones, in line with the constitution, which stipulated that no one man is bigger than the association. If the same association that gave you the mandate said this is the decision, I think it is incumbent on a responsible person to obey the decision of the association because like I said, every follower knows their leader. But maybe because he felt he was born into the association, only God knows, or it’s his father’s estate, because even me talking to you, if they take a decision today, and say president, we don’t need you, I’ll just carry my bag and go. That’s more honourable than to struggle for what you know you’ll not get. So, that’s the basis of all these squabbles left and right, here and there. Trade unions are run by the organs. So, when an organ makes a decision, you can’t, through a press statement, counter it, it’s not possible. Besides, even the ruling of the court that he got, didn’t say he should go back and become the president, because there was nothing that joined the association with the court processes throughout. The association wasn’t joined. It was just himself, three others and the Federal Government. So, there was no link of the association with the matter between him, others and NAPTIP. That’s the A to Z of the matter. Now, for clarity, if when the Union took a decision that he should step aside until that matter is cleared, if he had done that, this is the time his lawyer would have written to the association, saying the former president has been cleared, please, reinstate him. The CWC would have met and then taken a decision, reported back to NEC and NEC will then meet and take a decision whether to bring him back. But now, there’s no basis for that because he didn’t obey the decision of NEC ab initio, which asked him to step aside. He, in his own language, said that the decision was Kangaroo. Then, he went to NIC to challenge it. The matter is still in NIC, so you can’t just come and say because you’ve been cleared of your criminal allegation, you now say you’re returning to take your mandate. It’s not possible.
A statement signed by the Secretary General of the Union, Joshua Apebo, said that you’ll be the one to lead the union to the next national delegates conference where a new president will emerge. Will the union consider ratifying Bola Audu Innocent to run despite his expulsion?
As I’m talking to you at this point, Bola Audu is not a member of the union because he has been expelled.
The NIC is yet to make a final decision, it only said status quo should remain pending the final determination of the suit. Don’t you think choosing the next national president billed for next year will worsen the crisis, especially when the court is yet to make a final decision?
No, because administration continues. If you remember, when there was a case to remove the Osun State Governor, Ademola Adeleke, he went on appeal, it didn’t stop him from conducting the affairs of the state.
You know in that case, Adeleke had already won the election before the court case. But for your association’s matter, no election has taken place yet, let alone having a winner. Aren’t you worried about that?
You know, the fact is that I’m running for four years. So, it can’t stop the administration and running of the organisation. There are judgments that come after someone’s tenure has expired. Even to the Supreme Court, it has been proven, it’s there. You can’t ground an organisation simply because the matter is in court. The organ of the association has taken a decision which empowered us to run the association administrative wise.
What’s the way out for Audu? What will the union prescribe for him to do before he can be reabsorbed into the Union?
The union doesn’t have an answer for a man that is recalcitrant.
What if he later tenders an apology to the association?
That will not be my decision, it will still be the decision of the NEC.
What if the court later decides that Audu should return as the national president after next year’s election had already taken place and a winner had already emerged? What will be the next line of action?
Judges are people of high intellect. Let me also tell you that in trade union administration, you can’t force a recalcitrant member on the organization, it’s a basic principle. Judgements are based on facts before the courts, not based on sentiments. The association has a constitution which guides the running of the association. The only body that can overturn the decision of NEC is no other body than the national delegate’s conference.
Audu recently posted on social media that he still remains the authentic president of the union. If the court still says that this person that you expelled should return as president, after you’ve already elected a new president, will you ask the newly elected president to step down for him?
No, it can’t be so because we’re running the association. He was the one that went to social media to say he’s the president. So, what the union has done is to set the record straight. When it comes to a case like a governor whose tenure is four years, whether there’s a case in court or not, they have to conduct an election and swear in another person. It has happened in many states. If peradventure, the court rules otherwise, then it becomes an academic exercise.
What’s the update on all the Union’s monies he was alleged to have diverted? Has he admitted diverting these funds? If he has admitted, has he returned them or promised to return them?
The update on that is that the police are investigating the matter. At the appropriate time, the police will make it public. The matter is with the DSS and the Police, so at the appropriate time, they’ll make it public. That’s another case of criminal charges. In summary, we must learn to be humble at all times and know that there’s nothing in this world worth dying for. If you want to impose yourself against the people’s will, you’re bound to suffer a lot of trauma, emotional, financial and otherwise. Even image wise, in your later years, nobody will want to trust you because of your antecedent.
After your tenure ends next year, what will be your next ambition?
I’ll carry my bag and tell God thank you. Wherever God wants me, I will go. I’ll not hang around the union. I’ll retire very fine and then go quietly. If anybody consults me, I’ll sell my ideas.
Some state governments still owe their civil servants. What has the union under your leadership been doing about this?
My dear brother, the people have spoken. That’s why you could see in Abia State, the political calamity against the PDP. We said any state government that remains recalcitrant to the will of the workers, should be voted out, and it came to pass. That’s where we are, and we’re looking forward to seeing an improved government-labour relationship in the near future by the next dispensation.
What’s the strength of the relationship between the Minister of Labour, Chris Ngige, and your Union?
You know he’s playing the role of an umpire. I’ll give it to him, he’s been able to manage the affairs of government and that of the union to the best of my knowledge. On Wednesday, a reviewed Labour law was passed by the Federal Executive Council for transmission to the National Assembly. So, I give it to him, he has tried. He’s doing his job, and whoever is saddled with such responsibility knows what it takes. So, I give it to him, he’s tried his best, it’s not easy.
“When you look at what happened between ASUU and the FG that lasted almost one year, you know, sometimes, our leaders don’t apply emotional intelligence. There’s when to strike, there’s when to withdraw”
Many would disagree with your submission about him. Under his watch, Nigeria recorded her two longest ever strikes in the country’s history. The President of the NMA, Uche Rowland revealed in October 2022, that over 5,600 Nigerian doctors moved to the UK in the last eight years under his watch. In January 2023, National Association of Resident Doctors said 80 percent of doctors in Nigeria are planning to leave the country. Medical practitioners are also condemning the five years mandatory practice for medical doctors before being issued a licence. Many are against some of his actions. What do you say about all these?
Well, you know there’s a theory of individual differences and also perception. I know that bill can’t fly. You can’t beat a child and then expect the child not to cry. Whatever bill that can’t pass now, can’t go again because the tenth assembly will start it all over again. How many days do they have? It can’t go through because it will still go for public hearing, and at the public hearing, of course you know the union will speak, you know what that means. So, I see it as an academic exercise. They just want to pass something so that they’ll say they tried to pass a bill. Remember it was also a private member that attempted to push a bill removing labour matters from the exclusive list, did it fly? It can’t fly because the people’s will must prevail. That’s why I said power belongs to the people, so it can’t fly. When you look at what happened between ASUU and the Federal Government that lasted almost one year, you know, sometimes, our leaders don’t apply emotional intelligence. There’s when to strike, there’s when to withdraw. If you’re doing a negotiation, don’t expect 100 percent. That’s why our slogan in the union says the struggle continues. It is better you get, retrieve and push rather than another thing. If you have the interest of your students at heart, you won’t say until it is well with you. You must take some, look at the interest of the students, go back again, and then balance it with your own quest. But not to be only one sided and leave your students for one year. There are things we can blame the Minister of Labour for, he’s not an employer, the employer is the Ministry of Education but because he’s an umpire, he must drive a little bit to the right and a little bit to the left, so that the government that brought him as the Minister for Labour will not also look at him that he has over tilted.
How would you rate the performance of the previous NLC president, Ayuba Wabba?
I can tell you the erstwhile president of NLC weathered the storm of the union very well and tried very well, I give it to him. You know he also transited very well. He’s now a successful man because he had a successor.
People are already giving the new NLC president, Joe Ajaero, rave reviews after his strike threat made the CBN swiftly reverse the controversial cash withdrawal and Naira redesign policy within 24 hours. Many said that his first action as president was a sign of good things to come for the NLC and workers at large. Are you also of that view?
Well, you know there’s something about taking over with fresh energy and long term energy. You can’t just judge the performance based on one action. But he’s somebody I know has capacity and capability. We will always pray for him, so that the end will justify the means.
